Cubs and Mets: This Winter’s Best Potential Blockbuster
I’ll tell you why. The Cubs right now have a couple youngsters that have major league potential to be pretty darn decent behind the dish. (Wellington Castillo and Robinson Chirinos just to name a couple) While everyone searches for the next Joe Mauer, I for one would rather have a Yadier Molina type guy behind the plate, a catcher that can carry a pitching staff, slow down a running game, do the things that basically go un-noticed, and if he hits .240 with 5 homers and 40 RBIs hitting in the 8 hole…so be it. Soto has had a fine bounce back year offensively. It’s hard to ignore 15 bombs 40 plus RBIs, an OBP over .400, and arguably one of the best 5-8 catchers in baseball. Well- I rate his calling a game average, his arm average, and his blocking ability average. Geo worked his tail off last off season to get into shape, so you gotta give the guy credit, but he’ll be up for a contract extension relatively soon, and do you wanna pay him top dollar? Or could you potentially deal him in trade as a sweetener to land a big fish? I would go for the big fish here.
Now I’m just throwing this out on a whim- but could the Mets POTENTIALLY be interested in a Carlos Zambrano, Geovany Soto, Tyler Colvin trade for Jose Reyes and Carlos Beltran? Before Met fans freak out- lets think about this in baseball logic for both sides.
1) The Mets rotation is still plenty bad…more than plenty good. Even Johan isn’t as dominating as he once was, but is still a good option as a 1. Carlos Zambrano could use a change of scenery, and he has pitched well lately…and I think he would be much more effective in a bigger park. Johan, Pelfrey, Niese, Zambrano looks a lot better than what they currently have….unless RA Dickey is the real deal. Even so, Dickey in the 5 isn’t exactly awful. The money? Well- if they swapped Zambrano’s bad contract for Beltran’s bad contract- the difference wouldn’t be significant for big market clubs. Would Zambrano waive his no trade clause? That would be the HUGE question.
2) Carlos Beltran has had some pretty serious knee problems over the last few years. Making his deal look real bad this time around. Angel Pagan has really stepped up this year, and has shown that he could handle an everyday position, and hit leadoff. They also have Fernando Martinez still in the mix as a young kid that could be a real good major league player. They’d also add a kid like Tyler Colvin whose got some pop to hit in the middle of the order, is an above average outfielder, with an above average arm. He’s cheap, talented, young. Not a bad return at all.
3) Jose Reyes has been banged up the last couple years. He’s also got an 11 million dollar club option. Are the Mets willing to buy him out for 500k and watch him leave for FA? The grumblings of Reyes not wanting to play baseball continue to surface, and I think it could be time for him to get out of New York,and start fresh. The Mets would free up a lot of money and would be able to play one of the rising young shortstops in the system consistently. Clearly- the current Mets team is going nowhere fast, and it’s time to make some moves there. Geovany Soto would be able to take over the catching duties and provide a nice bat in the middle as well- and could hit as high as 2nd if he continues to improve his plate discipline. He’s also still young, still cheap, and could be a heck of a guy to add as well….the Mets could surely trade Beltran and Reyes for minor league players, but that would mean a complete overhaul- so why not deal them for current, young major leaguers with tremendous upside? It would also allow them to make a couple deals on the FA market because it would free up some money. Perhaps a 2B/SS like Omar Infante, Jhonny Peralta, Alex Gonzalez, or Orlando Hudson could come on over when Castillo isn’t resigned?
Potential 2011 lineup-
1) Pagan-CF
2) Soto- C
3) Wright- 3B
4) Davis- 1B
5) Bay- LF
6) Colvin- RF
7) One of the options playing 2b/ss
8) One of the options playing 2b/ss, two of the above options, Reese Havens, Ruben Tejada.
So as you can see- the lineup would be just as good if not better,while being much cheaper to make a run at the stacked free agent class of 2012. The rotation would certainly be stronger.
Lets take a look from the Cubs side.
1) Adding Beltran would immediately make the Cubs better. Yes- he’s been hurt. Yes he’s getting paid a ton of money, but hitting in a park like Wrigley, should immediately make him more dangerous. He’s a switch hitter, and I don’t think he would have to play CF every day seeing as a mystery player is over there. Wait…what? A mystery player? What do I mean by that? Keep reading… It’s a smaller outfielder, so no matter where he plays- I think he would be just fine in a smaller park. You also can stick him in the 3 hole immediately, which would be outstanding because the Cubs lack that left handed thumper in the order.
2) Jose Reyes could force Castro to 2B, a position a lot of scouts believe will be his future position. Either way you cut it, that would be one heck of an athletic middle infield with Reyes being in a contract year. You stick him in the lead off hole, and it gives the Cubs a running option for the first time since Juan Pierre. He creates runs with his legs, and him on base in front of Castro, Beltran, Aramis Ramirez would be salivating. A lot of guys LOVE coming over to Chicago…love playing for the Cubs. I think Reyes would love the city, the atmosphere, and the fans.
3) Losing Zambrano wouldn’t be that tough a loss, because as I’ve stated several times- he’s not the guy he once was. His contact is bad, and I think swapping him for Beltran’s money would be WELL worth it. So how do you replace him? Simple- you make a trade for Zack Greinke who supposedly isn’t happy with Kansas City and their never ending rebuilding process. What would it take to get done? Take a look at my opinion on that one here. That’s one solution…how”s this for another. Andrew Cashner, Hak Ju Lee, Marlon Byrd, Jay Jackson. Holy dominoes falling! Why would the Cubs trade Marlon Byrd? Simple- his contract is at a respectable 5 million a year on average (3 years 15 million) and he’s coming off a career year. The Cubs wouldn’t pick up any of the money seeing as they’re taking all of Greinke’s contract. So who plays center you ask?
4) Brett Jackson is next year’s center fielder. The kid has played well in the minors- and I’d LOVE to see what he can do. Trading Byrd would free open that money and would only be a 21 million dollar hit for a guy like Greinke…not bad right? Now the Cubs would need a first basemen- Lyle Overbay? Not a bad option for a year- Adam Dunn would probably be forgotten if this trade went down. And the Cubs would still be in a better position financially to make a run at one of the big boys in 2012 (Pujols, Gonzalez, Fielder).
The Cubs 2011 lineup if something like this went down.
1) Jose Reyes 2b/ss
2) Starlin Castro 2b/ss
3) Carlos Beltran rf
4) Aramis Ramirez 3b
5) Alfonso Soriano-LF
6) Lyle Overbay- 1B
7) Brett Jackson- CF
Chirinos or Castillo
with the rotation looking like-
1) Greinke
2) Dempster
3) Wells
4) Gorzo
5) Open competition with Trey McNutt, Chris Archer, Chris Carpenter, Jeff Samardzjia etc.
Is anyone else tired after reading this? Whew- a lot of moving parts as you can see.
All I know is that both teams have players that aren’t working on each side. Is it that out of the question that both teams could like the others pieces for their own puzzle? Heck no. It’ll be an important off season for each club- so let the dominoes fall where they may, and here’s to hoping both of these teams try their best to rid some of these guys from their respective team.
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[...] Trade Zambrano, Soto, Colvin, and a sweetner of some sorts to the Mets for Jose Reyes and Carlos Beltran. Click on the link to find out why and how that would be a great [...]
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I saw an interesting article a couple months ago that studied a catcher’s ability to frame pitches around the strike zone.
Soto was surprisingly good at it while Koyie Hill was surprisingly terrible at it…..did I say surprisingly? I meant predictably…
Anyway, Soto’s far from a butcher behind the plate. He’s probably about average, overall, which with his bat is acceptable. If you really want to bring up Chirinos or Castillo, the Cubs should just move Soto to 1B and go all in on Carl Crawford for next season.
You’d keep Soto’s bat in the lineup every day. You’d get improved catcher defense, and you’d have a leadoff man for the first time since……well, since a long time ago.
Interesting-Depends on which Beltran your getting. The guy in Houstion in 2005 or the Beltran whos been hurt the last 2 years? Same with Reyes-the 2007 Reyes would be nice. Only thing is,Id like to keep Colvin. Maybe the Mets might take a high minors guy like Brendan Guyer instead. Power lefties arent easy to find, especially in Wrigley.
Moving Soto to first is def an interesting solution…but where do you play Crawford with the line-up that’s already on the field? Unless you trade Fukudome, Colvin, and/or Byrd. As of right now- I don’t envision the Cubs going after CC unless you see a couple moves in the outfield happen prior to FA.
Keep in mind- I do believe that Soto is an okay defensive catcher. He probably won’t win a gold glove or throw runners out at Molina’s rate (quick name that molina…yadier!)but I think he’d be okay- however, as a catcher- defense is first and foremost and should be taken seriously. The key to everything I believe is Jose Reyes. If the Cubs can get him…I think you get him…if it costs you Soto…I would pull the trigger. I’m a firm believer that Jose Reyes (when healthy) would be an outstanding fit to this Cubs team next year. Which bring me to Beltran- he’s got a bad contract…but one year removed from surgery…and the ability to play in a smaller park…has to make anyone salivate…bad contract for bad contract…
This deal could really re-energize this team bc I think Beltran and a lyle overbay like player along with Jose Reyes will out perform Tyler Colvin and Geo Soto.
that was the stupidest thing i have heard in a while. you have managed to put together one of the worst trades in the history of the cubs. you successfully drained our system of every top prosepect,taken on expiring stars with large contracts and put prospects that are years away into the starting linup. it is people like you that embarrass me to be a cubs fan. please stick to fantasy baseball becasue you obviously know nothing about a real baseball team
A man with a brain…or lack there of…
I don’t know anything about baseball. Good call. If you think Tyler Colvin is an all star- your sipping the Kool-aid more than I am my friend.
Jose Reyes is only 28. Yup- he’s definitely over the hill. Forget about what he could do healthy, hitting leadoff. Heck- he had more SB’s this year than anyone on the Cubs a healthy Reyes could steal more bags in a season than probably the entire team as it stands now. Speed is a dangerous element. I think Reyes has a better career than Hak Ju Lee whose still in A ball and 2-3 years away from Wrigley. Our best base runner was Ryan Theriot- who not only got traded…but was a terrible base runner. How DARE I want some athletic middle infielders at the top of my lineup. How Dare I!
Carlos Beltran? Why would anyone want him? If I don’t know baseball…and you do…what makes Carlos Beltran over the hill? His stats? Nice. Ever account for his stadium? Or I don’t know…only being a few months off major knee surgery. What’s the worst that happens? He doesn’t do jack- he isn’t resigned…and the Cubs have that 18 million (with Zambrano’s option off the cubs plate) to make a run at that first basemen in San Diego…what’s his name…Adrian Gonzalez right…my bad.
Expiring contracts are outstanding motivation…just ask Carl Pavano. The Yanks were dumb enough to buy into that one and were rewarded with like 7 starts over a 4 year period. Not to mention someone will be dumb enough to give him a 3 year deal worth I dont know…20 million this off season.
What stars did I strip the team of? Chris Archer? Still in the organization. Trey McNutt? Still on the Cubs. Brett Jackson? Still around and starting. Hayden Simpson? Still around. What’s Andrew Cashner exactly? Is he a starter? Is he a reliever? Jeff Samardzjia is already in the organization last time I checked we don’t need two of them. Is Andrew Cashner going to win a cy young “Mr. Brain”? I mean…Greinke already has one…and is younger than Zambrano, has better stuff…should I keep going? If Soto is a star…well..maybe you should look into guys like Brian McCann…Buster Posey…Posada and Pudge in their prime. Joe Mauer. Those are stars. Geo is a good catcher. Nothing more nothing less. He’s replaceable and I feel sorry for you if you can’t see that. Did you know the Cubs had a better record with Hill catching? Prob not. That says a lot right there.
Yup. I’m sure the Rangers are real upset about losing “prospects” for Cliff Lee. I’m sure the Phillies felt terrible about trading Kyle Drabek (a more hyped, better prospect than Cashner). Give me a break with this prospect crap when the only 2 I traded were Hak and Cashner. Oh my bad- Geovany Soto is the next Bench, and Colvin is the next Griffey…..whoops my mistake.
If I don’t know baseball- why are you the one who doesn’t seem to understand the strength of the Cubs system- that they could lose Cashner, Hak Ju Lee, Soto(who I DONT want to pay 10 million a year too after arbitration), and Tyler Colvin- who hit 240 and will be a 5,6,7 hitter with maybe an all star appearance or 2 at the most. Hmmmm interesting.
Should we even get into Zambrano threatening retirement, or even debate if he’s an…ace?
If this trade is worse than the Lou Brock trade…I will giggle and happily say how wrong I am. Since that won’t happen…I guess I’ll have the last laugh won’t I?
So yes- if I’m the Cubs fan that embarrasses you…all apologies. I bet your the guy who still blames the fan who I will not name for the Cubs loss in 2003…so what does that make you exactly?
By the way- I’ll happily join a fantasy league with ya next year. I’ll enjoy winning that as well.